| Return to: Ken Snelson page Some snapshots from AWStruck
Below is an excerpt of real time dialog which took place June 6,
1999 within the AWStruck world within ActiveWorlds.
kurzon = Kirby Urner
Jitterbug = Alan Ferguson
CORE9 = Bob Coulter
<<earlier dialog snipped>>
kurzon: what's a "clatrop" anyway-- some kind of horse
equipment (sounds like)
"CORE9": Im learning simple macro programing in Arc/Info
(GIS)
Jitterbug: what you see is what you get.
Jitterbug: its a snellson floting compression.
"CORE9": a claptrop?
Jitterbug: yes.
Jitterbug: arc?
"CORE9": the earth is a sphere, so a line on a map is an arc
kurzon: Speaking of Ken Snelson, I got an email from him just
now...
kurzon: I've been meaning to revisit your 5/7/99 message with
the reference to
"CORE9": in the loop
kurzon: "awstruck" especially John Braley aka Totoro. I noticed
when I visited the
kurzon: site but neglected to comment on the structure Totoro
displays. Exactly --
kurzon: though a bit clumsily done -- my 1962-3 piece "Trigonal
Tower" -- it's on
kurzon: pg. 32 of the Albright-Knox/Hirshhorn Museum catalog.
One could only guess
kurzon: from the caption on the awstruck webpage it's a Totoro
original. I know
kurzon: it's harmless in itself but sooner or later someone's
going to declare that
kurzon: Snelson apparently ripped-off the work of one John Braley.
Do you happen to
kurzon: have his email address?
kurzon: ...
Jitterbug: its my fault.
Jitterbug: i did the page.
kurzon: He's talking about the caltrop. Quite conincidental
that I'd get this email just as we were discussing it in
real time.
Jitterbug: its a mind blower.
"CORE9": automatic almost
kurzon: Maybe you could add "(see: pg. 32 of Albright... catalog,
"Trignonal Tower" by Ken Snelson)" -- that'd maybe warm
his heart to our project, where, after all, many of us
are Snelson fans
"CORE9": me
Jitterbug: i think we all are.
"CORE9": yep
"CORE9": ucky was right even tho he was wrong
kurzon: He's really a kind and generous guy, but very sensitized to
when he thinks his own contribution is being overlooked,
because of what he considers bad faith moves by RBF on that
score
Jitterbug: within the stuck comunity we know this is snelson's work,
what we don't know is who made that perticular imitation.
"CORE9": very sorry that damage was done
"CORE9": yes
"CORE9": in GIS this is called meta-data
kurzon: I don't think any lasting damage was done -- here's an
opportunity to add a link to Snelson. He might even scan
the catalog picture for us, could have the ("see pg 32..")
link to the scan. A plan?
Jitterbug: im just going to look at that page.
kurzon: Didn't John Braley do the "imitation" (I'd call it a
transcription, like in music, when you do the same melody
but for different instruments -- in this case Struck/AW vs.
the "real world" where Ken struts his stuff
"CORE9": nice pun
kurzon: I'm looking at that page too
Jitterbug: it said: some Strange trees grow in the garden. This is
a very
Jitterbug: beautiful floating compression by Totoro.
kurzon: Right.
"CORE9": I recall Brawley showing this real-time on stuck chat.
"CORE9": he attributed it to Snelson
Jitterbug: i wonder if the albright catalog is online.
Jitterbug: totoro is impecable when it comes to references.
kurzon: Could say "beautiful floating compression by Totoro, in
the tradition of Ken Snelson's "Trigonal Tower" -- given
Ken say's this one is "clumsey" it may not be identical,
line by line (dunno). But anyway we could link to a picture
of said tower.
kurzon: Shall I ask Ken if he'd be willing to send along a scan?
I could store it at my site behind
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/snelson.html and you
(Jitterbug) could add a link?
kurzon: Ken has a scanner and all the necessary technology to
assist in this way.
Jitterbug: Some Strange trees grow in the garden. This is a very
Jitterbug: beautiful floating compression by Totoro, in the
Jitterbug: tradradition of Ken Snelson's "Trignonal Tower". (see:
Jitterbug: pg. 32 of Albright catalog, "Trignonal Tower" by: Ken
Jitterbug: Snelson)
Jitterbug: on the Ken Snelson?
Jitterbug: ok.
"CORE9": what was beautiful in the struck chat demo was the manner
in which the caltrop "pumped" when animated.
"CORE9": very sponge-like
"CORE9": 9in my mind
"CORE9": 0
kurzon: Yeah, except I abbreviated the catalog name, it's "the
Albright-Knox/Hirshhorn Museum catalog" -- how about just
say "in the tradition of Ken Snelson's "Trigonal Tower" and
make that two links: "Trigonal Tower" is one, "Ken Snelson's"
is two
"CORE9": does snelson know that the caltrop has this property, i
wonder?
kurzon: I'll get the scan and post the bibliographic info under the
picture, so as not to clutter your page. Your Ken Snelson's
link could go to my snelson.html -- or just make it all one
link, to the URL I'll provide when we get the scan.
Jitterbug: this was only a web page because i couldn't post pictures
to the list.
kurzon: I don't think Gerald's EIG or our experiments with dynamic
floating compression is entirely derivative -- it's a new
branch, fed by Snelson's art. The properties of "caltrop"
in Struck would not be evident from the sculpture I don't
think.
kurzon: I understand about the web page. But I think you've got a
good asset there, something to show people who can't use AW
directly (all the Mac folk). Enchancing it at this point
with more historical info is an opportunity to assist
scholars who might
kurzon: come along and want to write detailed essays about all the
intellectual currents swirling about (the origins of EIG
or whatever it is)
Jitterbug: oh god what a thought.
Jitterbug: whats the link for Trignonal Tower
kurzon: I'll send Ken word of our plan. I think he'll be pleased
to get another (well-deserved) tie-back to his inventory,
and it'll make your page more scholarly.
kurzon: Use http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/trigonal.html (nothing
there yet, but I'll back it up soon).
Jitterbug: ok.
Jitterbug: done.
kurzon: Great. Go ahead and modify your web page any time. Plus
I have another idea. How about I put this dialog at the
trigonal.html page, to memorialize this sychronistic exchange
and document our conscientious attempts to serve scholarship?
kurzon: synchronistic (typo)
Jitterbug: fine.
kurzon: dinner bell. Gotta go. Any objections? Think it'd be fun
-- not too stiff or formal, shows we were real people.
Jitterbug: well my spelling is just a little too real.
Jitterbug: ;)
kurzon: Heh
kurzon: CORE9 ok?
Jitterbug: having this all hapen while looking at the object in question
is just too bazar.
kurzon: Did we lose CORE9?
Jitterbug: i see 4 users he may be out of range.
kurzon: 4?? Wow. Well, I gotta go. If you find him, maybe mention
that I've archived our little chat re "Trigonal Tower" and
"Caltrop" at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/trigonal.html
"CORE9": aol dropped me
kurzon: Hi CORE9 -- I gotta go but just wanted your permission to
archive our recent chatter for the sake of scholarship re
"Trigonal Tower" and "Caltrop" to a web page.
"CORE9": sure - all one big happy famuly!
kurzon: OK -- maybe Ken will let us use the full text of his letter
as well. Off to dinner now. S'been fun guys.
"CORE9": thanks for the amazing place to hang!
"CORE9": bye kurzon
Jitterbug: ok bye kurzon.
kurzon: For the record: please type real names. Jitterbug = [ ]
and CORE9 = [ ] . That'll be like a signature. Kurzon =
Kirby Urner
"CORE9": core9 = Bob Coulter
Jitterbug: Jitterbug = Alan Ferguson.
Here's the text of Ken's letter, which I received just as we started discussing the very structure he was writing about: Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 18:44:09 -0500 To: Kirby Urner <pdx4d@teleport.com> From: Kenneth Snelson <ken101@inch.com> Subject: Re: Friday afternoon Hi Kirby, I've been meaning to revisit your 5/7/99 message with the reference to "awstruck" especially John Braley aka Totoro. I noticed when I visited the site but neglected to comment on the structure Totoro displays. Exactly -- though a bit clumsily done -- my 1962-3 piece "Trigonal Tower" -- it's on pg. 32 of the Albright-Knox/Hirshhorn Museum catalog. One could only guess from the caption on the awstruck webpage it's a Totoro original. I know it's harmless in itself but sooner or later someone's going to declare that Snelson apparently ripped-off the work of one John Braley. Do you happen to have his email address? It's ever more apparent that the web is blossoming into a morass of half-facts, misrepresentations, rumors, disinformation and bogus claims about everything under the Sun. It's possible to find any kind of "truth" you're looking for -- just shop around and sooner or later it'll pop up. Reminds me of Katherine's father whose doctor told him he should quite smoking. He came home more annoyed than worried about the health risk of tobacco. "I'm going to find a doctor who'll agree there's no harm in not giving up cigarettes", he decided. He was years too early for the internet. The pollen season is upon us here with a vengence -- highest count in years, so they say in the Times. I didn't need the Times to put out that news -- coulda written it myself. Ken >On the Struck front, folks with access to ActiveWorlds >(Windows) are collaborating on a "world" -- one of >those interactive cyberenvironments wherein avatars >(each puppeted by a user behind the scenes) congregate >and exchange pleasantries. But here the focus is less >on chatter and more on populating the landscape with >geometries, some of them rather Snelson-like (Totoro >aka John Braley is one who shares your distrust of >synergetics to some degree -- has done a lot w/ >"tensegrity" on his own, including using curved >compression members (something Sam Lanahan also showed >me, from his photo-ablum -- he's long put those days >behind him though (but evinced sincere curiousity about >you when Trevor and I looked him up))). > >Pictures from this "world" (which I've yet to visit, >though I have the software): >http://members.home.net/aferg/awstruck/ > >Kirby And here's some follow-up correspondence, leading to the final form of this web page: Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 06:20:08 -0500 To: Kirby Urner <pdx4d@teleport.com> From: Kenneth Snelson <ken101@inch.com> Subject: Re: Trigonal Tower Hi Kirby, Must be telepathy! An astonishing coincidence with awstruck and my message to you. Yes, the link is fine since I know you'll be tactful in your editing. I'm really delighted these guys are fascinated by all these structural ideas and I wish not to do critiques of their efforts. But the link and my message are great -- for which I thank you. Gotta rush to the studio 'cause some visitors are coming by this morning. Best, Ken >Howdy Ken -- > >New web page: > >http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/trigonal.html > >Please check it out. > >By happenstance, I downloaded your June 6th letter re Trigonal >Tower right as I was taking it in for the first time as an >avatar-pilot within AWStruck (previously I'd only seen the still >picture). Indeed I spent much of the day in AWStruck -- first >time I'd really taken a real tour of the place (there's lots >there, including a large junkyard, where Alan has been playing >around -- he showed me a few of the ropes). > >Anyway, it was just too cool to have your email show up the very >moment I was scoping out the totoro thing (I think there were two >of those shapes actually -- and the surrounding scenery didn't >precisely match the web picture either, as I recall). Dialog >ensued, and we three (totoro not present) agreed on a plan to more >properly credit your earlier creation, with a link to this new web >page -- putting our planning process right there on the web too, >so all could look over our shoulders on this one. > >With your permission, I could include your letter of June 6th >to me (partly excerpted in the dialog), plus I'd like to add a >link to this page from snelson.html -- OK with you? I can include >this email also, and your next reply if you would like. That'll >give people insights into this whole business of making sure no >one is getting stepped on here, neither intentionally nor >inadvertently. > >Kirby > >PS: in the dialog, you'll see a lot of sentences from me (kurzon) >about how we can ask you to scan us a picture of said Trigonal Tower >for the web page (out of the catalog you cite). At the time, >I wasn't realizing that you'd already done this -- had attached >a TIF right along with your June 6th letter. > >PPS: totoro, aka John Braley, may be reached at tau@jps.net. I was >not present during the chat session wherein he first introduced the >structure (within Struck, where it has more elastic freedom), but >CORE9 (aka Bob Coulter) says he credited you (my experience of John >is he's quite meticulous about such things (even if he'd discovered >that structure on his own, he's not one to suppress links to earlier >incarnations of the same and/or similar ideas)). Jitterbug (aka Alan >Ferguson) takes the blame for not carrying this tie-back forward to >the web page (he wasn't thinking in terms of making a permanent >record), but thanks to you, this story has a happy ending. Here's a follow-up post by John Braley explaining the deriviation of this term 'caltrop', applied to objects having this trigonal tower shape. From: "John Braley" <tau@jps.net> To: <struck@xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: struck: AWStruck, Snelson, Caltrop, Trigonal Tower Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:22:31 -0700 I've taken to using "caltrop" instead of "centered tetrahedron" or "like a methane molecule". It is, I think, a good word to use to describe the geometric shape. The star-thistle origin is a pleasant bonus. BTW, I've read that, as weapons, these things were used way back...for example, strewn on the path to the village to slow down marauding Vikings, who were generally barefoot. Main Entry: cal·trop Pronunciation: 'kal-tr&p, 'kol- Variant(s): also cal·throp /-thr&p/ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English caltrappe, alteration of calketrappe star thistle, from Old English calcatrippe, from Medieval Latin calcatrippa Date: 15th century 1 a plural but singular or plural in construction : STAR THISTLE 1 b : PUNCTURE VINE; also : any of various related herbs (genera Tribulus and Kallstroemia) of the same family (Zygophyllaceae, the caltrop family) 2 : a device with four metal points so arranged that when any three are on the ground the fourth projects upward as a hazard to the hooves of horses or to pneumatic tires [from Merriam-Webster on the net] |
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